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May 18, 2023

E 126 Mental Health in the Workplace: Protect Yourself

E 126 Mental Health in the Workplace: Protect Yourself

The pandemic changed things for workplaces in so many ways, the way mental health is treated is just one of them. Often, in the workplace today,  people talk more about how they are actually doing, sharing about their mental health, and possibly thei...

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The pandemic changed things for workplaces in so many ways, the way mental health is treated is just one of them. Often, in the workplace today,  people talk more about how they are actually doing, sharing about their mental health, and possibly their mental illnesses. This isn’t always a good thing though. An article in the Wall Street Journal last month, discussing the downside of bringing your whole self to the workplace had us thinking, how much should we really share about ourselves in the workplace?


Mental health in the workplace carries a lot of emotion for many people, it can be a really scary topic to discuss because it seems incredibly taboo even in a time where there seems to be less stigma surrounding mental health. We tackle this topic this week because that is what we do, talk about the things no one wants to talk about. We talk about best practices as an employee and as a leader to maintain a positive mental health environment.


As we continue moving through mental health awareness month, we continue to bring awareness even on the toughest corners of the topic.  We hope you enjoy! Don’t worry there is quite a bit of levity as I talk about my massive Linkedin presence with 31 connections and my purchase of the entire Wall Street Journal. Sarah also has BEST news to share with everyone!



Amy & Sarah

We want to keep on keeping on with our mental health awareness mission and to do that, we need to grow our Patreon community so that we can continue to put out the Unqualified Therapists podcast. YOU can help us keep the mics on andjoin our community for as little as $5. Your support means the world to us as we continue to stop the stigma surrounding mental health and mental illness.

*The Unqualified Therapists Podcast is not recommending medical advice as they are not actual doctors (Hence the name: Unqualified 😉). This podcast is for entertainment purposes only and all medical advice should be taken from a Qualified Doctor. UT shares stories and resources, not medical advice.


Sarah Simone (00:27.751)
How about this?

Sarah Simone (00:32.327)
Can you hear it? No? Okay, hold on. Wait, sorry.

Amy (00:38.836)
Is it a different song?

Sarah Simone (00:45.787)
Sorry, it's taking a sec. Get your yawns out.

Amy (00:47.57)
It's fun.

Sarah Simone (01:07.442)

Amy (01:08.354)
Thank you. And thank you very much.

Amy (01:15.842)
Welcome back everyone to another episode of the Unqualified Therapist.

Sarah Simone (01:21.742)
Yes, I should play the cheering now. How about this?

Amy (01:30.978)
That reminded me of like a clap in a boardroom or something, right? Or like one of those cheesy conferences. Yeah.

Sarah Simone (01:34.079)
Yeah, it was very anticlimactic. The ones that go, good morning. Oh, come on. You can do better than that. Good morning.

Amy (01:43.638)
The worst. The worst. If we ever do that public speaking, just fire us on the spot. Don't pay us. Send us away. Cancel us. We're fine. Is there anything worse? I mean, there is, but...

Sarah Simone (01:50.107)
Just walk out, no, walk out. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm, we're fine.

Sarah Simone (02:00.127)
There are much worse things. It's funny that we're starting with this not even meaning to work related verbiage. Oh. Ha ha ha ha. For what we're talking about today.

Amy (02:05.514)
Oh, it was purposeful. Don't worry.

Amy (02:10.087)
I knew what I was doing. Yeah, yeah, I was leaning into the works, itch.

Sarah Simone (02:15.335)
doing those segues.

Amy (02:17.426)
I know, I know. I don't even know how because my brain doesn't, you know. We had a day, guys. We had a day, a good day. Really good day. We were on Talk Pittsburgh for the second time, this time just introducing ourselves and why we do what we do to all of Pittsburgh. Actually, you know it's like more than Pittsburgh. It goes like Western PA.

Sarah Simone (02:22.439)
Mm. Was a good day.

Sarah Simone (02:39.859)
Cool, I didn't know that.

Amy (02:41.886)
Yeah, so it's outside the city too.

Sarah Simone (02:44.643)
So to really link this back to some mental health issues, Amy and I had some anxiety reactions to that, not before, not during, but after, where we both were like, what did we just say? What just happened? And then we both went like, oh, I'm gonna throw up. It was wild.

Amy (03:05.782)
We got off of the show and this did not happen to me last time and her husband Randy's like, you guys were great. It was so perfect and on point. And the other girl who was also on the show said, I wanna listen to your podcast now. You said all the right things. You know what I did? I stuck my head, my entire face into Sarah's dress. I was like, I don't want anyone looking at me. Bye.

Sarah Simone (03:29.855)
You hid, you were like trying to turtle, you tried to retreat to your shell.

Amy (03:32.702)
I totally, I definitely turtled because I didn't remember anything.

Sarah Simone (03:38.839)
Yeah. And immediately I was like, we were, it was great. It was fine. And I'm like patting her leg. I'm like, it's okay. It's okay. And then I get in the car and on the way home, I start like hitting the steering wheel. I was like, what did you say? Well, what happened? I had no memory of it. And so then I panicked. I was like, if I have no memory of it, it couldn't have been good.

Amy (03:53.404)
I know.

Amy (04:00.19)
It's because we joked so much beforehand about the fact that they let us on live TV that like in my head I was like, did I say crazy shit? But no, we were very polished, which is wild because it doesn't feel that way still now. You can show me the video and I'm like, no, that's not even us. I don't know what you're talking about. Oh my gosh.

Sarah Simone (04:05.873)

Sarah Simone (04:16.579)
If you say so. So there's some behind the scenes for you.

Amy (04:25.874)
Seriously, but I mean, I think that what's fascinating to me when we go on that show is how many amazing people there are. I could say in the world, but really, truly just in our region, like there's just cool people and I just want to make sure those are the people that are in my world. So I'm always like, be our friend, be our friend. There's just a lot of people that I would have never known otherwise and...

Sarah Simone (04:36.296)

Sarah Simone (04:39.649)

Sarah Simone (04:45.751)

Sarah Simone (04:53.031)

Amy (04:53.238)
being introduced to them. If you see them on the show, it's one thing, but then like meeting them, it's fascinating to me. It gives me hope in the human species.

Sarah Simone (04:57.916)

Sarah Simone (05:03.863)
Yes, and the species once more. Those are the good people, the ones that restore your faith in humanity.

Amy (05:11.094)
Yeah, and those are the people we met today. So it was fantastic. So today is a topic that we've put off and then put off some more and then put off some more. It makes both of us really uncomfortable and probably that's why it needs to be talked about the most because it makes us so uncomfortable and we both have such a, bloop, bloop. Now I know she doesn't even take those out. So there we go. You're gonna all hear that. It's okay.

Sarah Simone (05:15.033)

Sarah Simone (05:35.963)
Ha ha ha.

Sarah Simone (05:39.271)
Dude, just not on Patreon.

Amy (05:41.734)
It's all right. We know that Sarah and I have both had personal situations with our mental health and workplace, but that's not what we're here to talk about today. So if you're here for that, you can go away.

Sarah Simone (05:55.635)
That's right. I mean, I might talk about mine a little bit, but that's it. You're not getting the, you're not getting the scoop, the dirt. Mm-mm. We don't, we're not gonna cater to just, to people who are there here for just that. To our listeners, or new and old that are here for the right reasons, welcome. We are so excited you're here.

Amy (06:01.815)
You're not getting the scoop, sorry. The dirt, nah.

Amy (06:16.859)
We are here to help everyone and just kind of like bring awareness. I am still looking for and I feel like I found someone on Instagram. I'm still looking for an HR person to come on and talk about this topic. I feel like that's a better, not a better, but a different viewpoint. And I think that it would be.

Sarah Simone (06:29.724)

Sarah Simone (06:35.379)
Did we say what we were talking about? Did we say it? Oh, okay, I'm so sorry. I'm so sorry. Go ahead.

Amy (06:40.278)
Yeah, I thought I said mental health in the workplace.

Amy (06:46.262)
Well, everyone out there, we are talking about mental health in the workplace. In case I didn't say it before.

Sarah Simone (06:55.437)
I'm so sorry. Oh guys.

Amy (06:56.97)
It's OK. But anyways, so I feel like that would be interesting. So if there's an HR person out there in the listening world or someone who is a leader, like a top leader, you can come on without your name, that's fine. I would just love to hear from your perspective how you handle it, how you think it should be handled, and what are the difficulties from your vantage point. I think that's an interesting side of things.

Sarah Simone (07:26.115)
Agreed. And before we start to dive into that, I have some really great news that I wanna share with everybody. And it does kind of, not kind of, it does tie along with mental health in the workplace for my vantage point and for other people who do experience physical and mental illness and still are working.

Sarah Simone (07:50.023)
But on Tuesday, I went to my oncology appointment. I go every six months because I was within five years. And so for the first five years, because your chance of recurrence is so much higher, you have to go every six months. So on this Tuesday's past Tuesday, I went for my fifth year. It was the five year anniversary for my last six month scan and everything looks clear peeps. So we are down to one year every year instead of every six months.

Sarah Simone (08:18.703)
My chance of recurrence goes down exponentially after that. And it's just been a great, great thing to celebrate.

Amy (08:27.542)
Five year mark so big.

Sarah Simone (08:29.487)
Yes, it is huge and it was such a big deal. And I really wanted to just talk about that experience on here because I, in my head had amped this situation up so much. And I was like, this is the biggest deal ever and we're going to celebrate. And in my head, I'm like throwing myself a parade and having expensive champagne and all of the things. But, um,

Sarah Simone (08:58.179)
You know, I kind of forgot that I'm a mom and you know, that's life. So I had my appointment and then I literally ran around the rest, the entire rest of the day. I ran to go get clothes for my daughter to wear to her band concert that night. Because the ones that she had tried on, we pulled them out the night before like rookies and they didn't fit. And so I had to go get new ones, right? Raced home. I had to her try them on.

Sarah Simone (09:23.887)
really quickly because she only gets home an hour before we had to be back at the school. So I'm having to sew them because she's like this teeny tiny little thing, sewing them in and feeding her dinner and curling her hair and then going back to the school to watch her band concert that lasted an hour and then racing back home so we could record for this week as well. And it was just like all of that just went by the wayside. And so my parade, you know.

Sarah Simone (09:51.499)
my parade, what's the person at the front of the parade that leads it? That person tripped and fell.

Amy (09:58.37)
Well, I could have been that person if you told me I would have made a parade happen. No, I would have been there with a sign. I would have been like that person at the airport, you know, and even, oh, you know, I would have had it be different letters, but it would just be me. So then run and then get the other one and then run. Yeah, I could see that happening. I still think that you need to celebrate. We need to celebrate. But I think it's interesting, too, that celebration doesn't get what it deserves.

Sarah Simone (10:02.859)
Oh my god.

Sarah Simone (10:14.027)
Did you just run? Run and grab the next one?

Sarah Simone (10:19.119)

Amy (10:28.318)
Let's just say it wasn't good. Your whole life would have went, you know what I mean? Like in a different way. I mean, you still would have had to do all those things probably because you're a mom, but we don't give the positive like that. That is such a big deal. And yes, it is to be celebrated, but I get it because, you know, the kids are like, but I still have the concert and I still need something to wear. And I still would like dinner. And I, you know.

Sarah Simone (10:33.415)
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

Sarah Simone (10:37.708)

Sarah Simone (10:51.095)
Right. Exactly.

Amy (10:57.418)
Why didn't you plug my iPad in?

Sarah Simone (10:59.267)
Yeah, exactly. That's great, Mom.

Amy (11:01.962)
You're like, no, no, you don't understand. I'm five years cancer free. Like, but why didn't you plug my iPad in?

Sarah Simone (11:06.447)
Yeah. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Yeah, my kids were just like, oh, yeah, that's really great. What's for dinner? Are we eating before the show or after the show? Are we? And I was like, dear God.

Amy (11:20.194)
They did the same thing too with the first time we were on TV. They were like, mine did too. They were like, oh, cool. Next.

Sarah Simone (11:23.928)

Sarah Simone (11:27.187)
Mm-hmm. So we're here to tell you that it's okay if you don't get the celebrations, just do them yourself, even if you have to do them later. And that's what we're doing. We're just on the middle, the show, The Middle. They used to float stuff. And so they would like float birthdays and float anniversaries. And some, I think one year they all like stacked up. They're like, wait, we floated our anniversary already. It's already the next year. And yeah. So yeah.

Amy (11:42.513)

Amy (11:53.808)

Sarah Simone (11:56.743)
do what you gotta do, but I'm making it happen. We're gonna celebrate at some point. And it's gonna be epic. And I can't wait, but I just wanted to kind of talk about that. Sure, why not? Yeah. Yes, and I wanted to also bring it up because I got the initial diagnosis while I was working. I mean, I'm still a working person.

Amy (12:05.378)
Can I shake, shake champagne on you?

Amy (12:10.226)
Yeah, pop it. Well, yeah, of course it's a huge deal. Big deal.

Sarah Simone (12:26.043)
But at the time, I had owned my own business with a partner. And it just really shook stuff up there. And the feedback was not great. And so I'd really struggled and had a very hard time with managing work and managing illness and being told I was lazy, even though it was like I had just had major surgery.

Sarah Simone (12:56.387)
And then waited three months and had another major surgery and then another and then another, but I was still working in between and running back and forth and still being a mom and all of that jazz. But it's just viewed so differently when you're not present and giving a thousand percent of yourself to a business, whether it's your own or somebody else's. And having experienced that firsthand, oh, I mean, I...

Sarah Simone (13:24.831)
know now that if I ever employ people, my point of view has changed so drastically. It was always there though. Like I had a boss at PNC who, shit I shouldn't have said that, Patreon you get to know. But I had a boss at a former company that I worked at that anytime anyone called in sick, he would say, oh they've got the Iron City flu.

Amy (13:40.549)

Sarah Simone (13:50.823)
And I was like, they're not hung over. They have the freaking actual flu. One of his employees, I was standing there when he got the text message, one of his employees, this is gross, so skip forward if you don't want to hear it, puked on their floor, took a picture of it, and sent it to him. And she's like, if you don't believe me now, or then, you believe me now, right? That's how hard it was to prove to him that people were actually sick. It's an epidemic, people.

Sarah Simone (14:19.163)
So if people don't believe, if bosses don't believe, if companies don't believe when you're physically ill, how are we to convince them when we are mentally ill and we need a break? And that's kind of what we're here to talk about.

Amy (14:29.279)
Perfect segue.

Amy (14:33.094)
Yeah, it's true. I think that it's really hard to, from both sides, as the employee and as the employer, and that's me giving some, I don't even know, like a whole lot of, what's the word that I'm giving them?

Sarah Simone (14:51.763)
Credit? Liway?

Amy (14:53.054)
Yeah, maybe. I'm just going to pretend that there's some credit to be given there. And it's difficult on both sides. I think that...

Amy (15:04.31)
What I have been talking to Sarah about, first of all, I should tell you that my views on this have really changed a lot over the past year and what I think is appropriate to share at work, what I think is appropriate in the way that you take care of yourself around work. And so one of the things that I was saying is that, as an employee, you have to build up some equity and-

Amy (15:32.382)
So you're prepared for those times that, you know, lo and behold, they're coming. I mean, you just know how life goes, right? So whether it's physical or mental, it's coming down the road. And so when you build the equity up, I like to think that there would be some more grace and more understanding. I'm not saying that you have to. I'm just thinking that that might go easier for you, right? And the hard thing is, is when you've built that equity up,

Amy (16:00.798)
and it still goes poorly. And for those bosses, I have nothing to say to you nicely. But for someone who's a hard worker, who like really does their job, gets things done, is responsive, and then comes into a hard time, whether that be physical or mental, I would hope that a leader would give you some care, some break, like grace and understanding. And I was naive enough to believe that

Amy (16:30.722)
bosses cared about their employees. I truly did. I know that I care about anyone who works for me no matter what. And so it's just, that's a hard thing. And I'm going to get into it later about, it's really going to come down to the leaders making changes, I think, for any of this to shift. And I think that if they don't, they're going to be left without anyone to work for them.

Sarah Simone (16:59.607)
Agreed. And this is just going to be a conversation. We are not HR representatives. We have some personal experience. We are here to just share our thoughts and to start a conversation with you. And so we would love to hear from you and your thoughts on this. And like Amy, my views on how much you share at work have drastically changed. And so I believed

Sarah Simone (17:28.675)
years ago that if you were feeling ill, whether that was physical or mental, that you could share that with your boss and you could say, you know what, I just really need a mental health day. And I was doing that because I was trying to open up the conversation. I was trying to spark acceptance and I was trying to set an example for my children so that

Amy (17:45.218)

Amy (17:49.427)

Sarah Simone (17:54.539)
they would feel comfortable when they grew up that if they needed to take time off, they could because my parents never did. Those people, my parents worked literally all the time. I was a latchkey kid at 10 years old, and that's a lot of Gen Xers. We came home on our own, younger and younger, I feel like. Off the bus, let ourselves in to the house, made ourselves, I made myself dinner. I did my homework on my own. I took naps.

Amy (18:15.284)
Oh yeah.

Sarah Simone (18:22.995)
You know, whatever, my parents didn't get home until nine, 10 o'clock at night. And, um, that was, that was life. And I went to work with them until I was a latchkey kid, until I was old enough to stay home by myself, I went to work with them after school. So I spent, I grew up in a radio stations and theaters and, you know, just running around and watching them work themselves to the bone. And so immediately after school, when I started working, that's what I did. I worked myself to the bone. I worked myself sick.

Sarah Simone (18:49.111)
until I started to have these types of conversations and learn about caring for myself in the mental space and the physical space and how important both of those things were. And so initially I was like, I'm going to go the complete opposite and I'm going to speak up and I'm going to say, I'm not feeling good. I'm not having a good day. My anxiety, like I'm having some anxiety or I'm feeling some depression. I'm feeling some sadness.

Sarah Simone (19:14.819)
And, you know, that really started to backfire depending on where I was working at the time.

Amy (19:23.422)
Yeah, I think I want to also say from my perspective, again, Sarah just said it, and it's so important that we say it again. This is a conversation. This is a back and forth. I have a couple articles to share that have been recently published. This is an interesting hot topic as well on LinkedIn. I'm new to the LinkedIn world. I just feel so, I feel sassy that I'm on LinkedIn now. I know, it's very old and it's...

Sarah Simone (19:49.415)
I can't keep up with it. It's another social media platform.

Amy (19:52.518)
Listen, it's like something that never would have been in my like eyesight because it's just not what teachers did, did. And so I do feel very like in the know, but I like have 31 connections.

Sarah Simone (19:59.302)

Sarah Simone (20:09.743)
I just took a drink, sick.

Amy (20:14.094)
So, you know, that's like 31 friends, that's it. Anyways, it's okay.

Sarah Simone (20:16.659)
There you are, friends. That's it. Anyway.

Sarah Simone (20:23.315)
It's like when my son was like, mom, I have six followers on YouTube.

Amy (20:30.75)
but I thought it was a big deal. I know it's not a big deal at all and it's totally fine. But what I love about LinkedIn is it gives me the pulse on what's going on in the world of work with people who are a higher level, either like CEO or leadership or just like thinkers and authors in that space. So all the articles that I found came from LinkedIn where I have.

Sarah Simone (20:31.075)
He was so excited. It is, it is a big deal.

Amy (20:59.99)
30 some people. So, okay. So one of them that caught my eye because I was like, it caught my eye so much that I bought a subscription to Wall Street Journal so that I could read the whole thing. It's only like a dollar a month, guys. Support the paper. So now I am in the Wall Street Journal. I feel like that also makes me seem really, really smart.

Sarah Simone (21:22.323)
That is not the word that came in.

Amy (21:24.586)
Did I say own? I don't mean own. I mean I subscribe.

Sarah Simone (21:29.107)
When you said, when I own the Wall Street Journal, it makes me feel really, really, and I was gonna say old, and you said smart.

Amy (21:37.65)
Also, I don't own it.

Amy (21:42.486)
I subscribe, I subscribe. The top, oh my gosh, okay, bring it back. The title is when bringing your whole self to work is too much. And that just caught my eye and I was like, oh, tell me more. And so they talk about how the pandemic basically opened up this whole can of worms, especially for people younger than us. I never understand the generational name so I'm not even gonna try.

Sarah Simone (21:56.934)

Amy (22:10.518)
those generations, you know, below me.

Sarah Simone (22:13.079)
Millennial. Millennial Gen Z. Yeah.

Amy (22:14.686)
Yeah, but also like in... Yeah. So they, after the pandemic, everyone kind of had like, what would they call the great resignation, but it also then opened up this idea of having dialogue about this. And basically what this article is saying is that, okay, go for it, but know that the repercussions could happen. And, you know, talking about how...

Amy (22:43.626)
If you say something and it goes awry, it might mess up your promotion. It might influence how much your boss trusts you, even if that's not true. Obviously, I don't believe that, but that just might be how it goes.

Sarah Simone (23:02.431)
I'm gonna interject there and I'm gonna say, I do believe that, that it can influence how much your boss trusts you. That if you, if you, what's the word, divulge too much, that their level of trust can go down.

Amy (23:09.388)
Oh yeah.

Amy (23:20.194)
Definitely. So Scott never ever told anyone about his diagnosis, which for someone who had psychotic breaks and I'm going to laugh only because Scott would have laughed. The boss must have been like, what the hell is happening right now? But he didn't tell anyone because then, you know, when he was lucid and he was Scott, he knew there's going to be judgment and then these people aren't going to want to hire me for sure because

Sarah Simone (23:35.273)

Sarah Simone (23:38.145)

Amy (23:47.478)
This is a liability in their eyes. This is like, I'm not going to be as productive. And production is such a big deal, how productive you are with organizational leadership that, you know, anytime that you have, and I'm gonna go ahead and say, I think a physical illness as well, they just see you as less productive. And so I'm not gonna get into this guy's whole story, but he just talks about.

Sarah Simone (24:07.379)

Amy (24:16.034)
how he would do it all over again. The break was exactly what he needed, but he warns against naively expecting that sharing emotional truths doesn't happen without trade-offs. He took some FMLA time, and in order to do that, you have to divulge why, and it caused him to have to go to a new job. And he doesn't regret it though, because he needed it. And that's kind of another part of what we're gonna talk about as the employee, what you're responsible for.

Amy (24:46.102)
Like you're responsible for your own health, physical and mental. And so if that's what you need, you should just, you should, no, I'm not gonna say you should, sorry, Patreon. If that's what you need, I mean, talk to your therapist, talk to your loved ones, talk to people you respect and see if that's really the choice for you. I just think that getting healthy is, for me, it was number one.

Sarah Simone (25:15.959)
I agree 100%. And so that's part of this conversation too is, OK, well, say you do need to take some time off, but you're not feeling confident in the place that you work. Amy and I have talked about this a little bit, that we, going forward, if we are going to be working for other people, we're going to read the room.

Sarah Simone (25:41.979)
We're going to read the room on whether we, yes, on whether we share or not. And that doesn't mean just the room and just that particular interaction with somebody that means the company. So look at your company. Do they have support for mental health services? Do they offer some companies offer free therapy? Like there are companies out there that have therapy available to their employees. That's amazing. That means that your company has put mental health as part of its.

Amy (25:42.211)
Oh, please read the room.

Amy (25:52.692)

Amy (26:00.362)
Yeah, I read about those. Mm-hmm.

Sarah Simone (26:12.947)
I don't know what the right word is.

Amy (26:15.758)
prioritize it.

Sarah Simone (26:17.539)
Yes, that means that that company has prioritized mental health, at least in some way to financially to provide that for their employees. Look at what their mission is. Look at other examples. Look around the office. Has anybody else taken time? And what has happened to those people? Really take stock and take a look around what is happening in your environment, in that workplace to see.

Sarah Simone (26:45.083)
and read that room on whether or not you should feel comfortable doing that. My thought process for me personally would be if I look around and there's not some positive feedback in that, I'm probably going to start looking for another position somewhere else. Because your health, your mental health, your physical health is top priority. And unfortunately, a lot of companies aren't going to care when you're gone.

Sarah Simone (27:13.631)
You are a number and easy, easily replaceable, and they will be just talking about the next person filling the position once you're gone. So.

Sarah Simone (27:26.247)
Put stock in the people who care about you the most, your family, you, hopefully, your loved ones, your health, your mental health first.

Amy (27:37.086)
Yeah, and get some outside perspective, you know, before you make a move on any, in any which direction. Work is just hard. It doesn't even matter if you love your job. It's just a hard place and it's going to be stressful. There's going to be things that probably trigger. If you have a mental illness, it'll trigger that. There's a lot of parts about it that can just make your life harder. And you know, I believe that...

Amy (28:07.278)
How do I say this? I believe that sometimes it's better, you know, like for Scott, I think it would have been better for him to not work because it triggered it so intensely that then we lost him for months. For me, it's better for me to work because I've learned how to manage all of those things together. And if I am just sitting around thinking all the time, it tends to trigger my mental illness into another direction.

Sarah Simone (28:15.673)

Amy (28:37.294)
And that is so personal. There's no rule book. There's no handbook to this. You really have to think about what's worked in the past, what's not working. And I'm a trusting person. I used to be. I just lied to you all. I am not anymore. I used to be overly trusting in just the nature of people thinking they're all, like the people we meet at TalkBits. They're all good humans.

Sarah Simone (28:39.195)

Sarah Simone (29:03.883)
Right, right.

Amy (29:05.59)
You just need to be really careful who you trust at work too. So even if you think you've made some friends and all of that, you do you, but like I just say be really careful what you say to who because you need to think about yourself and your family first and how all of that will affect you.

Amy (29:34.442)
I want, I want, do you want to go into, sorry, Patreon. Do you want to go into the things that an employee can do right from there and then I'll, I will talk about the leadership.

Sarah Simone (29:34.626)

Sarah Simone (29:39.603)
I'm gonna go into.

Sarah Simone (29:46.019)
Yeah, I was just going to share a thought that goes along with what you just said. Yeah. I don't know if it was Brene or Glennon, though.

Amy (29:49.142)
Sure, yeah, that's fine. I just wanted to not go on then.

Amy (29:56.834)
Glennon's sassier, so I don't know. What is the quote?

Sarah Simone (30:01.107)
It was either Brene Brown or Glennon Doyle that said, being vulnerable, I think it's Brene Brown. Yeah, she's like, being vulnerable doesn't mean you go on and share your bikini wax with the world. She said, you need to find the people who have earned your vulnerability. It doesn't mean that you can just spout out to everyone and share your deepest feelings. It has to be a trusted person. And I think.

Amy (30:07.698)
Oh, it's Brene Brown. I love this about her. I love this quote.

Amy (30:15.977)

Amy (30:20.426)
Yes. Yes.

Sarah Simone (30:31.119)
You know, I used to trust everybody as well. I used to be so trusting. I think that that just changes maybe with age, maybe just experience. I'm not really sure. It's both for me, age and experiences that have just taught me like, you got to keep it. You got to keep it to yourself. Keep that stuff close to the chest and only share those. You know, as I'm sitting here in front of a microphone, spewing my life story.

Amy (30:37.438)

Amy (30:53.146)
We're kind of the exception. You and I are the exception. I mean, I still hold back though. I'm not saying everything that I'm saying in my therapy sessions. I'm not saying everything I say at night to Mike. Like, I'm just not because experience has proven that that's just not necessary as well as the fact that I think that it was Brene again that I felt like, oh, shit. You know, oversharing is

Sarah Simone (31:01.047)
Mm-hmm. Yeah.

Sarah Simone (31:05.574)

Amy (31:22.962)
unhealthy and it's not a good look for yourself and it means there's something deeper going on with yourself that you have to overshare. So I had to really reflect on that. So I do consider that I was an oversharer and I just thought I was being vulnerable and I thought I was like being like authentic and I think you can be authentic and I think you can be vulnerable without oversharing because it's important to pick your people appropriately.

Sarah Simone (31:24.364)

Sarah Simone (31:42.08)
Yeah, me too.

Sarah Simone (31:52.067)

Amy (31:53.11)
And even though we're talking to many, many people, Sarah and I still don't say everything because it's not necessary. It's not going to help you and that's why we're here. We're here to help all of you out there. So why would I say things that, you know, just would make me feel better to say?

Sarah Simone (32:02.011)
Yeah. Right. Right. Or we don't say them in the moments that they're happening because that's not the time to share it. We save them for times when we have been able to work through it, process it, and then are grounded in it and are able to share and share experiences to try to help. So

Amy (32:19.063)

Amy (32:24.074)
and are grounded.

Sarah Simone (32:30.587)
just thinking about it from those different perspectives. And I'd love to hear what you all think about that. And what you think about hearing advice from people who literally spend their lives sharing everything. But anyway, that's just for Patreon. I'm taking that out, but.

Amy (32:45.91)
I thought you were gonna be like, and what you think?

Amy (32:51.006)
about what do you think about Amy owning the Wall Street?

Sarah Simone (32:54.179)
owning the Wall Street Journal.

Amy (32:56.91)
The whole company, guys.

Sarah Simone (32:59.079)
changed her name to Rupert Murdoch. She's owning it all.

Amy (33:01.362)
Oh my God, talk about like, no thank you, ew. All right.

Sarah Simone (33:06.598)
But he owns everything though, right? Doesn't he own like all of the media? Yikes.

Amy (33:09.486)
Probably him and Elon.

Amy (33:13.846)
which you're gonna take this out of the episode episode. He has a swastika tattoo. It's been shown in multiple places. Yes, what is happening? Disgusting. And he's like, well, what do you mean? That doesn't mean anything. Okay, Elon.

Sarah Simone (33:20.429)
No he does not.

Sarah Simone (33:23.431)
That's disgusting.

Sarah Simone (33:31.566)
Okay. So now you're just telling everybody you're uneducated. Yeah. It's getting our rants.

Amy (33:36.506)
Oh my gosh, Patreon's getting it with our rants. They're like, did you guys take your medicine today? I actually don't have any ADD medicine. So this is just Amy. There's no fixing it because we actually got another diagnosis today. So we don't want any more.

Sarah Simone (33:46.284)
Yeah, yeah, me either.

Amy (33:55.83)
What is it, long-term grief syndrome or something?

Sarah Simone (33:56.085)

Sarah Simone (33:58.867)
Prolonged grief syndrome. I think that's bullshit to be honest because I think that grief is just prolonged grief. I don't think that Anyone I don't know. I don't think it's a syndrome. I know but what I'm saying now that you

Amy (34:09.066)
It's a syndrome. You're the one that said it in the first place. Okay, now that you made it happen and you made it true, now that you made it true, you're like, no thanks.

Sarah Simone (34:19.96)
Yeah, so after we put that episode out, Amy's like, well, fuck, did you see this is in the DSM now? I was like, wait, what?

Amy (34:28.475)
I was writing the like little blurb that I have come to realize no one reads. I'm going to put something ridiculous in there and see if anyone catches it. But anyways, as I was doing it, I was like, wait a second, did anyone actually check the DSM? And then I just Googled it and I was like, what? Mind blown. It's a syndrome. And you have six months to get over your grief or else you're diagnosable.

Sarah Simone (34:35.953)
Ha ha!

Sarah Simone (34:54.235)
We'll probably bring Dr. Katie on to help clarify that.

Amy (34:55.79)
We definitely need Dr. Katie for that one. I admit it. It's fine.

Sarah Simone (35:03.407)
Oh man, yeah, that's a rough one. I was saying that it was a mental illness until I realized that it might be another diagnosis for myself and then I was like, no, nevermind.

Amy (35:15.914)
I didn't even think about it until I saw it. And then I was like, why would I even want this? Yeah.

Sarah Simone (35:20.303)
Nope, nope, nevermind. All done.

Amy (35:23.802)
What if it's like Girl Scout badges though? We could make it cool.

Amy (35:29.314)
You put pins, like little pins on your purse.

Sarah Simone (35:31.707)
just envisioned wearing a sash with badges with patches of all of the mental illnesses that you have. And like that's what you just wear around like how there's those new singles ring to show everybody that you're single. We're going to wear sashes with patches to show what our mental illnesses are so we can be like, hey, anxiety buddy.

Amy (35:34.638)

Amy (35:52.038)
Except at work. Don't wear that to work. Don't wear that to work. No, no, no, no, no.

Sarah Simone (35:59.867)
TM on that, by the way. I'm trademarking that shit.

Amy (36:04.538)
Oh my gosh, I really do love that. But that's like, mm-hmm.

Sarah Simone (36:06.575)
available soon in the Unqualified Therapist store.

Amy (36:10.714)
Oh, we're, I mean, I say we're doing it, but we need a person to do it.

Sarah Simone (36:12.251)
We're doing it. No, we're doing it.

Sarah Simone (36:16.995)
Yeah, we got it. We're on it. I know somebody. We got this. Ha ha ha.

Amy (36:18.858)
All right. All right, all right, cool.

Sarah Simone (36:23.503)
Oh Jesus. All right. Back on track. So, you know, we were just sharing our feelings here and, um.

Amy (36:25.174)
Back on track.

Sarah Simone (36:37.263)
I got permission from my husband to talk about this first, so I don't wanna freak anybody out. But you know, he's just another example. So that's three of us and the closest people, me, Amy and my husband, who have experienced some kind of backlash from disclosing something with their mental health at work. A few years ago, Randy decided to take some time off of work for his mental health. It was...

Sarah Simone (37:05.835)
right after my cancer diagnosis, we were really struggling emotionally. And he was trying to, I was, I was having a very rough time processing this whole thing. And he, you know, was taking on basically all of the responsibilities because I was sort of like, what is happening? Plus, it was a whirlwind. I had surgery a month later. So I was literally physically out of commission in terms of like helping out. So the poor guy was not only taking on

Sarah Simone (37:34.843)
taking care of our children full-time, working full-time, but also helping to support me full-time in my processing of all this, but also he's my husband and he's watching his wife go through this really difficult diagnosis that was really scary for a little while. And so he went to work and he disclosed this and said that he needed to take a leave, a medical, a mental health leave, which they okayed and...

Sarah Simone (38:04.855)
and acted as though they were extremely supportive at the time. And then when he came back, um, the second he got back, it was one thing after another, and he actually heard the person in charge say to someone that they were looking for stuff on him to get rid of him. So he chose to leave on his own accord and, and

Sarah Simone (38:32.679)
quit instead of waiting for them to find things on him. But that's just another example of a workplace that just looks down upon people who are out there just trying to take care of themselves and their families. My god. Just trying to survive. I don't say this story. I don't tell this story to scare anyone into not taking the time off that you need to take. He did what was best for him.

Amy (38:47.606)
We're just trying to survive, man.

Sarah Simone (39:01.623)
and us in that moment. And then he did what was best for him at the after effects. And he chose to leave on his own terms and find other employment. And so that was, you know, it was a rough time figuring things out for a while, but a hundred percent worth it and would make the same choice all over again.

Amy (39:25.262)
And it's personal. It's a personal decision, but I'm going to echo that and say that regardless of the result, I would never, ever, ever do it differently. I needed my time. I had no time. I took no time off after Scott died and I needed it. I knew I needed that time to heal from that. I knew also that I needed to learn how to be a parent. I know that sounds weird. If you're a new listener, I'm sure that sounds really weird.

Sarah Simone (39:27.673)

Sarah Simone (39:37.392)

Amy (39:55.094)
But my husband was the primary caregiver. I just didn't understand children, even though I was a teacher. But I didn't understand parenting, and it just was really hard for me with my grief as well. All that being said is that I, that time, changed my life. I am whole again, in a sense. And I sort of kept going through broken. And so sometimes you just have to take that risk. And

Sarah Simone (40:19.534)

Amy (40:24.098)
take care of yourself and know that, you know, whoever or whatever you believe in has your back. Like the universe really had my back and eventually.

Sarah Simone (40:34.475)
Right, yeah. Things might not happen immediately, exactly. It could be eventually. Mm-hmm, right.

Amy (40:38.919)
or in the order you would expect. But yeah, it's all personal folks, and we just want you to do the best for yourself.

Sarah Simone (40:50.383)
I do want to give a shout out, and I'm going to say the company name because it's a very positive experience. I worked for Stitch Fix for a while, and that was a room that I could read from day one that I was in the right place. It was an amazing experience. You know, I did end up having to leave because of my mental health. I had to leave employment altogether for a while there. That's a story you can hear on other episodes of our podcast. But.

Sarah Simone (41:19.155)
It was the most supportive environment I've ever been a part of. My immediate boss and supervisor was so incredibly understanding any time that I needed time. And then her boss above her was also incredibly supportive. The company itself has support groups for all kinds of different things. And they're very supportive of diversity as a whole.

Sarah Simone (41:46.191)
And so it was a really great experience working for them and working there. So I just want to, there are companies out there that exist. That's why I'm telling you this, is that it does exist. You do have to look for it. You have to dig for it and really make sure that you're in the right safe spot. That's for sure.

Amy (42:05.762)
That's wonderful. Yeah, they were pretty amazing for you, for sure. Yeah, I think that it doesn't have to be a perfect company as the toxicity part is where it takes it to another level. And I think that you can still take care of yourself in an imperfect situation without, I should put like that, like, I don't know, that little asterisk, yeah, caveat, like unless it's toxic and abusive, don't.

Sarah Simone (42:08.687)

Sarah Simone (42:17.988)

Sarah Simone (42:29.619)
Caveat, yeah.

Sarah Simone (42:34.281)

Amy (42:34.87)
That's not what I'm saying.

Sarah Simone (42:37.923)
Yeah. But to lead into what we're going to talk about next, I am going to give myself some credit here, too, to say, yeah, they were very understanding when I needed the time and needed to do things. But I also did my absolute best to make up for that. So if I needed to take time one week or one day the next day, I would try to make up for that. And I gave back, too. And I did a lot of mindfulness classes and yoga classes for my coworkers. We did some virtually.

Amy (42:39.659)
Oh man. Yes.

Sarah Simone (43:08.363)
and it worked out really well. So I tried my best to also be the type of employee that they would want to keep around, even though I came with an asterisk as well when it came to needing some time off. So we're gonna talk about that a little bit and how what we can do as employees in the mental health space and work to make sure that we're operating as best as we possibly can. So there's some...

Sarah Simone (43:37.867)
really great tips out there. You got to dig for the good ones. Take what you can from some articles, leave the rest, and piece together your own. But I found a really great website, info.totalwellnesshealth, that had great tips, that I liked the majority of them. So one of the number one things that they have is to check in with yourself. And I think that that's something that's a learned behavior.

Sarah Simone (44:07.403)
It took me a long time to actually sit back and be like, how am I actually feeling? Why am I starting to feel this way? And noticing and knowing what your signs are and what your triggers are. So I know that if I start to physically shake that I've got some major anxiety going on and I need to take a step back and think about what's happening in my immediate surroundings and then I can take steps to combat that.

Sarah Simone (44:35.163)
So checking in with yourself is definitely necessary. Here's one that I'm gonna put the little asterisk next to and it says to socialize. And I will say socialize as long as you're not in that toxic environment. And if it's not a toxic environment, go for it. Make the friends, but remember to keep the deep, not the deep stuff. So, I'm gonna go ahead and do a little bit of a

Sarah Simone (44:59.759)
Remember to just choose carefully and with purpose what you share and with whom. Practice positive thinking. We have been talking about that a lot lately on this show, and I encourage you to listen to the episode with ask yourself why not podcasts. They do a great job at giving us tips on how to do that. It takes a rewiring of our brains and the way we think. So it is a process and it doesn't happen immediately. And it takes a lot of time.

Sarah Simone (45:28.219)
And it's still something that I'm working on on the daily. So, but I have noticed a huge difference since I've been putting the effort into changing my thoughts to more positive ones.

Amy (45:39.33)
And it's so, I always want to say, who are we? Like sometimes, like talk about, we talked about on the last episode, the evolution of us. And that is, this is a part of that, you know? And one of the things that I took away from talking with Ask Yourself Why Not, as well as some other things that have come up in my like feed is, you know, when something's really wrong, like, I don't know, if I have a day full of meetings, like,

Sarah Simone (45:42.447)
Yeah, I know, because...

Amy (46:05.482)
you know what, I'm so grateful that I have all of these meetings and I'm going to get all of these things done and accomplished during them, or I get to talk to all of these people. However you want to reframe it, go for it. Try it at least. It's really hard sometimes and sometimes I still say things like, I'm never going to get all this done or there's just not enough time or I can't stand all these meetings or whatever. I don't mean any of them actually.

Sarah Simone (46:33.072)

Amy (46:33.39)
because I love meetings and I'm the only person on the planet. But reframe. Yes, yes. Like I love them and everyone complains about them and I'm like, oh no, I love a back-to-back day because to me it's like more than one person trying to solve a problem and I'm not alone in it. And then like we're possibly going to actually solve that problem. At least we're going to get more information.

Sarah Simone (46:39.599)
Is that because you were a teacher for so long? Like, is that why?

Sarah Simone (46:45.307)
That's interesting. Huh.

Sarah Simone (46:55.697)

Sarah Simone (47:02.723)
Yeah, that's a really interesting and great perspective. I've never heard anybody talk about meetings like that.

Amy (47:03.327)
And so...

Amy (47:06.453)

Amy (47:09.238)
I know, I'm so weird. Yeah, I love a meeting.

Sarah Simone (47:11.451)
No, I like it a lot. That's changed my thoughts on it for sure.

Sarah Simone (47:19.195)
Oh gosh. Okay. So the next one is to know when you need to take a break. That goes back to checking in with yourself. Um, but also use the PTO you're given PTO a lot of places do. Um, if you are given it, use it. It's that's what it's there for. And if they're asking you why you need it, I don't think we'll check with some HR people. I don't think they can. So if you want to take PTO, just put in the PTO.

Sarah Simone (47:47.747)
And if you don't, if you can't go into work that day and you need to take a sick day, you could just say, I am using a PTO day today.

Amy (47:54.946)
I 100% agree. I also think that just be responsible with it. Like don't ghost everyone. Like, you know, communication is your friend. And so can you tell it I've been supervising people? I know. So communication is your friend. Just tell people what's going on and take care of yourself. It's fine. Just like disappearing is the worst thing. Don't do that.

Sarah Simone (48:01.015)
Mm-hmm. Right.

Sarah Simone (48:21.675)
Mm-hmm. Yeah, don't do that. But with that being said, I am going to move on to leave work at work. And when you're taking a break, when you were on that PTO, do not work. Randy took PTO for my five-year appointment to go with me so that I wouldn't be by myself. Because I went through this, and a lot of it was during the pandemic, I did a lot of it

Sarah Simone (48:51.283)
incredibly, deeply lonely and really hard. And so having him there for this appointment was amazing. And I've never, I used to cry in every single appointment and I did not cry in this appointment. It used to be like the hardest thing. And I was like, oh my God, I feel so differently having someone like having that support system there. So anyways, he took the day off.

Sarah Simone (49:15.503)
And went with me and he's like, well, I need to go in for a couple of hours. And I was like, no, you don't. I said, you took PTO, you're not going in or you're not taking PTO. And you're just not coming with me. I was like, pick, cause it's not going to be that if you're taking a day off, you're taking a day off. And I think that that's really hard to do, especially when you're the person in charge, you know, and you are leaving. Other people in, in when you're leaving responsibilities to other people or, you know,

Sarah Simone (49:44.687)
you feel like you might be leaving too much for someone or you're just feeling guilty, but that's what the time is there for, is for you to take it off. So when you leave work, leave your work there. That means when you leave for the day too. So when you go home, put on your favorite music or your favorite podcast, wink, wink, and listen to that on your way home and decompress.

Amy (50:06.89)
Wink wink nudge nudge.

Sarah Simone (50:12.371)
And then when you walk in the door, you're ready to spend time with your animals, or your family, or your TV. Well, not everybody has a family at home. Some people have pets at home. Yeah, that's why I said both.

Amy (50:19.041)

Amy (50:23.658)
and not everybody has an animal.

Amy (50:30.134)
Just messing.

Sarah Simone (50:33.839)
or your plants.

Amy (50:34.158)
I, oh, those are all dead. I will say, and this is an unpopular opinion to the Sarah Simone crowd, but for me it works. And this is just me saying this is okay for us to disagree because I know me and I know what makes me start to get too stressed or too spirally or whatever. So when I take PTO, I still do.

Amy (51:02.73)
check in on my emails and I do respond to the ones that need it responses, even though I'm off. And that's the only reason I do that is because for me to come back and have a million, it puts me over the edge. And then it's like as if I didn't actually take the time because then I'm like, I'll stress out again. So it's just a thing that I do in a limited way.

Amy (51:30.314)
She hates me for saying that.

Sarah Simone (51:30.695)
Do you set a timer? I don't hate you for saying that. It's a personal preference.

Amy (51:34.942)
I do not set a timer because I already messed up last time I said that out into the void of setting a timer. So I'll probably have to retract it or something again. I don't want any more retractions. So no, I don't set a timer. I just try to be mindful of the purpose of checking and the purpose of responding and the purpose of the time off, whatever the time off was for.

Sarah Simone (52:00.135)
So two concerns that I have with that, and this is a back and forth conversation, is one is that the boundaries then become looser with the people you're responding to, and they may have expectations of when you're off that they can encroach on that time. And then if you're like really needing time off or you're not available, that this expectation has already been set and then it might have this like very loose boundary that you're, and then it's confusing like, well, why aren't you answering me?

Sarah Simone (52:30.331)
That's just, I mean, just throwing that out there. And two, that.

Amy (52:32.81)
I mean, that's a good point. I think that that's another thing that like for me, it's like I'll cross that bridge if and when it comes to me.

Sarah Simone (52:40.407)
Yeah, personal preference. Yeah, yeah. I just hope that when you take those days and you do answer emails that you still feel like you got a day off. That's good.

Amy (52:43.255)
It is personal preference. I can't handle too much at once, so I've got to...

Amy (52:54.546)
I do, but I also am a very different...

Amy (52:59.894)
I'm also just remember we just said I like meetings. I'm a very different person because I was in so much of a toxic situation that all anything that that Do patreon you're gonna hear this and I'm gonna have her take it out of the rest of the thing I'm not even gonna say that Nope, just cut off where I started talking

Sarah Simone (53:17.491)

Sarah Simone (53:23.123)
Okay, will do. That's fine. Oh gosh. All right, we do. Yeah, yes, yes. So take a daily walk. When I worked in corporate life, I did this as long as it wasn't like blizzarding outside. I would take a walk on my lunch break and just walk around the building.

Amy (53:24.766)
I don't even want to, I don't want to, I don't want to even touch my toes in that water. That'll stress me out.

Amy (53:36.066)
Do we have any more tips? Like, do you get like a massage ball or a?

Sarah Simone (53:52.779)
one time at least and come back. And you will be amazed at just getting outside what that can do for your mental health. You can even, if you have, I wasn't able to do this in the job that I was in because we had to stagger how people went out. But if you're in a job where multiple people can go out at once, that could even be your time to socialize as well and kind of start a little accountability walking club with the rest of the people that you're working with. Getting that sunshine or just the outside air.

Sarah Simone (54:21.635)
stepping away from your work space can be very cathartic. If you have a large enough place that you're working in and you can't get outside, at least just walking around inside the building somewhere is also a way that you can do that as long as you're just kind of stepping away from the workspace for a little bit. This is gonna sound ridiculous to some people and to some people, they're gonna be like, ha ha, yeah right, but take a lunch break.

Sarah Simone (54:49.595)
So some people are going to be like, well, why wouldn't I take a lunch break? But I have worked in environments where taking a lunch break is considered lazy. Like where, where you're kind of ostracized and like, you're seriously taking a break. Yeah, I am. So not only does it take down your production levels because your body needs food and nourishment to function. Um, but it's also pretty terrible for your brain and

Sarah Simone (55:18.279)
massively attributes to burnout. So even just a 15 to 20 minute break from your desk is gonna help you feel more productive, boost your mental wellbeing, and it's gonna make you a better employee for your employer. So don't let anybody try to take those lunch breaks away from you.

Sarah Simone (55:36.039)
I feel very strongly about that one, because I went years without lunches.

Amy (55:40.138)
I'm not even saying anything, because you're just going to shake your head at me.

Sarah Simone (55:45.339)
I mean, if you have an opposite opinion, go for it.

Amy (55:48.242)
No, it's fine. I do think you should take a break. I take breaks. I walk around. It's really important for me to move and get away from the situation so that I can regroup and refresh.

Sarah Simone (55:59.707)
So what am I gonna shake my head at?

Amy (56:01.994)
Well, sometimes I don't necessarily, it's just mostly because I'm like all over the place, I don't necessarily always take a lunch break. Um, but sometimes I will take like a break at my desk and eat something. And instead of looking at my email, like scroll reels or something, I don't know, just to shift your brain.

Sarah Simone (56:20.463)
Yeah, that's a break. That's a lunch break. You don't have to stand up, walk away, go to a restaurant, or to a cafeteria or something. You just need to, that would be so nice. Yeah.

Amy (56:22.708)

Amy (56:28.874)
Wouldn't that be nice though? Like a restaurant every day that's free? That would be amazing.

Sarah Simone (56:37.752)
When I worked at the Hard Rock in Las Vegas, it was free with an employee dining room.

Amy (56:42.812)
Did you have favorite things to eat there? Like, were you like, I want this every day or like?

Sarah Simone (56:46.607)
Mm-hmm. Yeah, they had the chefs that were like, that cooked, that were also line cooks for some of the restaurants, worked in the employee dining room. They all did shifts. So we could have the best freaking food, and it was all free. It was amazing. It was so good. Mm-hmm. No, you ordered. Yeah. I mean, you had to go up to the counter and order and bring it back to your table. But I mean, I ordered, I got the stir-fry like all the time. So it was like chicken and vegetables and rice. It was so freaking good.

Amy (56:56.854)

Amy (57:01.43)
Did you order or is it like a cafeteria? You ordered, no, you ordered.

Amy (57:11.961)
Oh my gosh.

Sarah Simone (57:15.151)
Or they would just make like grilled sandwiches. And I mean, we had the pastries from, it was, we were so spoiled. So, and that was my like first big girl job.

Amy (57:25.798)
That's seriously the hardest part is when you're so spoiled in the beginning of your life, in your career. Because I was like so spoiled financially, I made so much money and so did Scott. And I was like, this is just only going up from here.

Sarah Simone (57:29.399)
Uh huh. Yup.

Sarah Simone (57:37.751)
Right. Exactly. Exactly. Yeah. My life insurance, my health insurance was $5 a paycheck. I had free meals included. My breaks were paid. We didn't clock out for them. I mean, it was ridiculous. And then we left and we moved from Las Vegas. And I was like, what is this life? What? This is not real. It was completely different. Yeah. I'm going, let me see.

Amy (57:43.522)
Hmph. Hmph.

Amy (57:58.91)
Yeah, that's hard when you start at the top.

Sarah Simone (58:07.695)
Sorry, Patreon, I just need to look through my thing real quick. Okay, I have two more.

Sarah Simone (58:15.699)
Two more tips, quick tips. One is organize your workspace, which can be really tough for people who have ADD, ADHD, like myself. I have a really tough time. And it's weird because I want it to be organized, and it makes me crazy that it's not organized. But actually, the task of doing that is overwhelming for me, and I need help doing it. So like Randy will help me.

Sarah Simone (58:41.787)
But then as soon as he starts, I'm like, oh, no, no, no, I got this. I got this. So it's like, I, it's almost like I need somebody to just like start doing it or something for me to be like, Oh, nevermind. I can do it. But a clean and organized workspace, it's a really great way to alleviate stress. Cluttered desk can make you feel anxious. It can make you feel disorganized and it can make you feel flustered. So if you start cleaning and organizing your workspace once a week, it helps to boost your mental health. And the very last tip that I have for you is something that we just say all the time and that's.

Sarah Simone (59:09.975)
Seek treatment when you need it. Go find that treatment. If you're feeling too stressed or you're feeling mentally unwell, you should always speak with a professional. And according to the Center for Workplace Mental Health, 80% of employees who were treated for mental health problems reported improvements in their job satisfaction and their productivity. So really, it's a win-win for the employer and the employee. You hear that, employers?

Amy (59:38.542)

Sarah Simone (59:43.751)
So those are my tips for you in trying to help your mental health in the workspace.

Amy (59:49.838)
Those are good. I like those a lot. Those are really good.

Sarah Simone (59:53.744)

Amy (59:56.682)
I think that the biggest one, that's the hardest one, is the walking away. And it's just, I don't know what that's about. Like, why is it so hard to walk away? Um, but that definitely is a nice reset for your body and your brain, I should say.

Sarah Simone (01:00:13.199)
Yes. Yeah.

Amy (01:00:16.746)
I'm just making sure I have my notes right, hold on.

Sarah Simone (01:00:22.103)
Okay, hang on. What's up, honey? What? I'm recording. We're in the middle of recording. It's okay. What's wrong? Can you talk to daddy or do you need me?

Sarah Simone (01:00:35.197)
Okay, I'll tell daddy to come see you, okay?

Sarah Simone (01:00:51.471)
I'm ready whenever you are, sorry.

Amy (01:00:52.61)
Okay, so.

Amy (01:00:56.518)
I believe that we have a bit of a problem now with retaining employees. And I think that the way to do that is from your leadership. I don't know, the top of whatever company it is, it's a top-down problem for sure. Or a top-down amazingness, it just depends. But people look up to the person who's up above them, and they really do guide.

Amy (01:01:26.578)
and steer the organization company. So this is five ways to retain top talent through mental health resources. I believe that's the name. It sure is. I'm gonna say that again for the recording. Five ways, so this is an article from Psychology Today. It's five ways to retain top talent through mental health resources. And so number one is to provide better mentorship. And...

Amy (01:01:55.518)
With that, I think it's mostly about having someone who can help you in your job, in your specific job. So like helping you to either train you or explain to you like how to move forward in the path that you want to go with that company. You know, just someone who's there to answer your questions. So that was number one.

Amy (01:02:20.722)
Number two is to increase HR and leadership awareness of mental health conditions and stigma. And a lot of people say that's not their job, they shouldn't have to do that, but having a little bit of training on what mental health in the workplace can look like and mental illness, just your basic education, I think makes people less judgmental and then like makes things less scary. And then we just have less issues.

Amy (01:02:50.958)
Do you agree, Sarah?

Sarah Simone (01:02:54.265)
I agree so wholeheartedly with you. I cannot believe that they're even trying to say it's not their job when it is literally human resources and human beings deal with mental health issues.

Amy (01:03:06.434)
Well, there were other articles that I read that said, I'm not a trained professional. Okay, yeah, we understand you're not a therapist, you're not a psychiatrist. I get that, I'm not coming to you for therapy. Your employee is not coming to you and saying, I'm laying on your couch and telling you my problems. This is just, you can just be on the lookout, understanding, okay, so this is what to look for for this, this is what to look for here.

Sarah Simone (01:03:18.948)

Sarah Simone (01:03:23.619)
make me better. Yeah, right.

Amy (01:03:35.17)
Knowledge is power. If you understand the illness, then it's so much easier to not have those misinterpretations of things and you're you can be a lot more you can be a lot more like I don't know I want to say vulnerable like because a lot of things Can you hear Avery?

Sarah Simone (01:03:57.788)

Amy (01:03:59.742)
Mike, shut that door.

Amy (01:04:06.651)
Oh, Patreon is getting the full gamut.

Amy (01:04:12.419)
They've decided to get every snack at the top of the stairs, every single one, and rummage through the whole thing. I honestly felt like they dropped in a whole bag of rice. Okay.

Amy (01:04:25.982)
A lot of CEOs in some of the articles I've read have decided to go ahead and divulge their own mental illness because they felt like it was going to allow the people who worked for them to be more vulnerable and feel more safe. I was like, that is really, really brave. And I think of John Fetterman when I think of that because of his just bravery in terms of coming out and, you know, I can't imagine like then working for him, I would feel like so empowered.

Sarah Simone (01:04:40.102)

Sarah Simone (01:04:50.384)

Amy (01:04:56.263)
and um

Sarah Simone (01:04:59.643)
For those who don't know, John Fetterman is the senator for Pennsylvania. So I just wanted to... Because I wouldn't know any senators from other states, I don't think.

Amy (01:05:05.642)
Yes. And he, right, right. And I guess I was speaking as if I had already like talked about it, which I did not, not even close. He was very open about his depression and he did go for 30 days treatment and has been very open since he's gotten out about what depression is, what it was like for him and how he was able to find help.

Sarah Simone (01:05:13.139)
Ha ha ha ha.

Sarah Simone (01:05:32.283)

Amy (01:05:33.546)
So, you know, I always say lead by example in everything you do. And then number three was offer routine well-being check-ins. And that's just, you know, the managers checking in to see how people are doing. And I guess I would like that to be like to think that those are legit, like you're actually checking in to see how someone's doing. And really, one of the things that...

Amy (01:05:56.362)
I did a lot is I feel as someone's manager boss, my job is just to like make your life easier. So what do you need? Trying to make sure that they have what they need, whether that be in their job or elsewhere. Number four is flexibility. So offering flexibility, like the job needs to get done, but I'm not like saying that you have to be in the office Monday to Friday for this many hours.

Amy (01:06:25.834)
A lot of companies are doing that now because of the pandemic, but I think that the hybrid workplace and the remote workplace really does help, especially for people who have some mental health issues that they're working through just because it gives them that flexibility. If they're having a rough morning, they can just sleep and then work later on. Now, not all jobs. You can't do that for all jobs and for sure. Because...

Amy (01:06:54.294)
You have to be there or somewhere from a nine to five time frame. And then just reviewing benefits that are available. So what kind of benefits do you have for mental health? Is it an app that you can get a counselor, that a therapist through? Is it that you call your insurance company and see what kind of benefits you get to support you in terms of reimbursement or?

Amy (01:07:24.01)
maybe it's covered, whatever it is. Also, are there like other benefits such as, you know, gym or yoga or massage? Can you get paid back for some of those? Just sharing whatever benefits you do have and, you know, just creating a safe place for open dialogue. And then I know this is almost as if we are contradicting ourselves right now, but I'm speaking from

Amy (01:07:52.894)
a leadership standpoint, I still think until you see these things occurring, you should keep some things tight to your chest and just take care of yourself and do your job.

Amy (01:08:06.762)
So again, I just think that the change is going to come from the

Sarah Simone (01:08:16.655)
And until it does, keep that stuff to, keep that shit to yourself. Just kidding. I'm just kidding. Just kidding.

Amy (01:08:22.142)
Yeah, no one needs to know. Don't put it on the airwaves. Come on.

Sarah Simone (01:08:32.237)
Yeah, don't get on a microphone every week.

Amy (01:08:33.15)
I think that ensuring that people have a work-life balance again, you do that by practicing what you preach.

Amy (01:08:44.926)
It's so important that you take your time, that you show that you're not, you know, someone who wants to work 15 hours a day, because, you know, there are some people who will want to then do that because their boss is doing it. You know, nobody wants to be the first person to leave, you know, that sort of thing. And I just think that you should lead by example and show a work-life healthy balance.

Sarah Simone (01:09:18.755)
Remember that when you check your emails when you're off. Boss lady.

Amy (01:09:23.222)
That actually helps me have a work-life balance. Thank you very much.

Sarah Simone (01:09:27.699)

Amy (01:09:29.622)
Yes. The anxiety I have of opening up my email in the morning is too much for me. I need to know exactly what it is I'm diving into. And if there's nothing scary, then it's all good. I just go in and take care of it all. But there's some people that can make that happen, and I save more power to you. Go for it.

Amy (01:09:54.234)
I'm talking about bragging about working like 15 hours a day. That's not good.

Amy (01:10:02.922)
So this is not a fun topic. I did not have fun during this episode. No, that's just for Patreon. This is not a fun topic for anyone to talk about because it's their livelihood and it is how they take care of their family. This is how you survive. And so it is extra scary. It's not like you're going to, I don't know. I mean, losing a friendship would be terrible too, but I mean, this is like really big.

Amy (01:10:33.078)
and you want to make sure that you think about it from all sides and that you really are making sure that you only say the things that are necessary.

Amy (01:10:48.567)
while taking care of yourself.

Sarah Simone (01:10:55.507)
This is, it was hard. That was hard. Yeah. This was, no, I did. I liked those tips for employee. I think that it's important that we highlight what the employers can do because I think a lot of times they don't know what to do. If it's a smaller business, hopefully this is helpful for those people. For big corporations, hire a team of people. They'll come in. They'll tell you what you need to do. But yeah.

Amy (01:10:57.174)
That's all psychology today has. You didn't like psychology today?

Amy (01:11:13.251)

Amy (01:11:23.427)
Right, exactly. There's people out there to do that.

Sarah Simone (01:11:26.555)
Absolutely. And I mean, there are, like you were saying, apps that you can use. And there are apps that I know certain companies provide to their employees. Who were we talking to that they said, Oh yeah, my company gives me the call map for free.

Amy (01:11:34.646)

Amy (01:11:40.522)
Oh, that's me. That's me. I use it too.

Sarah Simone (01:11:42.448)
Oh, that's you!

Sarah Simone (01:11:47.475)
Well, there you go. Yeah. I was like, some I'm like, somebody was telling me that would be you. Oh boy.

Amy (01:11:52.286)
Yeah, that was me. That was me. Yeah, it's actually incredible. I don't do it as often as I should, but the meditation on there is really good. I mean, everything's good. It'll talk you to sleep. Also, you can track your moods. There's a lot of good trackers on there. There's a lot of things. I mean, it's a good app and it is provided by my employer and that I do appreciate.

Sarah Simone (01:12:03.558)
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

Sarah Simone (01:12:07.027)
Call them has some, yes, yes.

Sarah Simone (01:12:18.671)
Mm-hmm. Yes, and so hopefully your place of work has wonderful benefits like this. If it doesn't, that's OK. Do what you can do for yourself. And if you want to find someone that will provide more support for you, go for it. You start looking for that job that's going to give you everything that you need. We know that that's with 31 friends.

Amy (01:12:41.61)
Get yourself on LinkedIn.

Sarah Simone (01:12:48.615)
See if you can beat Amy's total.

Amy (01:12:48.704)
Oh my god.

Sarah Simone (01:12:57.339)
Oh, I can't.

Amy (01:12:59.81)
It's actually called connections, not friends.

Sarah Simone (01:13:03.619)
Excuse me, I'm so sorry. Get yourself more than 31 connections, or 31, exactly. We'll be a connection for you. We're on there. I haven't done anything with our LinkedIn, but we are on there. If you wanna link up with us and be one of our connections, we probably have way fewer. Yes, yes, please do that instead. So we may as well say that while we're here,

Amy (01:13:05.226)
Mm-hmm. That's alright.

Amy (01:13:23.896)
It's better to join us over on Instagram. Do that instead.

Sarah Simone (01:13:32.627)
Please find us on Instagram. We do like to post things that have to do with our episodes and give you some little behind the scenes or extras or pictures to go along with, visuals to go along with what we're talking about. You can find us at Unqualified Therapists. If you are not already a Patreon, you get so much more than you bargained for when you are on our Patreon. You get complete unedited episodes sometimes.

Amy (01:13:56.758)
Oh my gosh, Patreon's getting all the secrets this time.

Sarah Simone (01:14:00.147)
Yes, this will be one of them. So if you want all of the behind the scenes without anything edited out, if you want videos of the episodes as well, if you want extra content, bonus episodes, meditations, yoga classes, all kinds of fun stuff, find us on slash Unqualified Therapists, Inc. And you can hang out with us there.

Sarah Simone (01:14:26.887)
find our website at with all of our episodes listed there, also listed by category, which is, I just love, it's like one of my favorite features on there. So if you're, yeah, if you're looking for an episode, yeah, if you're like, I wanna really listen to an episode that talks about body image, then you can go and find it right there under categories. It's really great. We-

Amy (01:14:38.574)
That's what I use. When I need to find something, I use the categories.

Amy (01:14:52.534)
When you go to our website, it'll pop up for you to give us your email to get a freebie that you can download for a freebie gratitude journal. And then you'll get, I promise you, not that many emails. It'll just be the important ones.

Sarah Simone (01:15:07.203)
It's like one a month-ish, maybe one every six weeks.

Amy (01:15:10.57)
Mm-hmm. Yeah, but it will be good because it'll tell you everything that maybe you missed in social and All the things that are upcoming for us

Sarah Simone (01:15:20.055)
Yeah, those are all the places you can find us and we hope that you can hang out with us some more in those spaces and places. But in the meantime, thanks for hanging out with us here today and talking about a tough one in a weird way, something that we avoided for a long time, but here we are. It was uncomfortable. Oh.

Amy (01:15:39.103)
It was uncomfortable.

Amy (01:15:42.442)
I don't know. It was necessary though. I mean, it's a topic that we haven't hit before and I think it's one, hopefully it just starts a conversation maybe for you the listener and you can just chat with someone at home about it because it's just good to talk about with people that you love and hear their perspective and maybe what's going on with them at work.

Sarah Simone (01:16:03.755)
Yeah. And if you want to share your story with us, please reach out to us via our website. You can register as a guest there, or you can DM us through Instagram. And we would love to hear your stories. If you want to leave us a quick voicemail, we can share on the show. You can find that on our website as well. We would love to hear your workplace, mental health in the workplace stories too, if you're willing to share. Yes.

Amy (01:16:30.242)
Give us some positive ones, that would be fun.

Sarah Simone (01:16:33.939)
Please, if you have positive ones, I know that you got some negative ones out there. Everybody does. That's why we're here talking about it, and that's why we're like, do we talk about this? Ha ha.

Amy (01:16:43.262)
I know. Maybe times are a-changing.

Sarah Simone (01:16:47.847)
Here's hoping.

Amy (01:16:48.951)
Here's hoping.

Amy (01:16:53.078)
We good? All right, thanks again everyone for joining us for this episode. We will be back next week. Until then, stay wild.

Sarah Simone (01:17:03.447)
and Weird Warriors, we love you. Bye, Patreon.

Amy (01:17:06.25)
by Patreon.